Well most of you know what's going on but the blog deserves an update. Or really you readers need one/want one even if you already know most of the news.
Jay arrived in Tallinn on Tuesday morning Estonia time. But to say it was uneventful wouldn't be quite accurate. He had a one hour layover in Stockholm, and his plane was late getting there. So he had about 40 minutes to get off the plane, go through customs, go to transfer, get his boarding pass for the second leg, go through security again, get to the gate in on a shuttle that takes him to the little plane. Well needless to say, he panicked when he couldn't find the transfer area when he had only a few minutes left (the Stockholm airport is confusing). He had to tell someone his plane was about to leave and get help, and get rushed through security. They held the plane for him and he barely made it.
Though he made it to the plane in time, his luggage, however, did not. He did get his bags on Wednesday morning after the next flight came from Stockholm to Tallinn.
After all that he did get a nice surprise when he got done at the baggage claim office. He walked out and found Igor waiting for him with the kids! He was so happy to see them right away. I was just as surprised when I called to see how baggage stuff was going and Katya answered the phone.
They spent the rest of the day playing and spending time together, and eating junk food. Anja came over too and we talked to them all on Skype video. Katya's hair is strawberry blonde and Roman has blonde tips. They look like a candy cane together. Lol.
Yesterday morning (afternoon in Estonia) Jay and the kids went to Liina's office before court to discuss details and ride together. She freaked Jason out with info about the judge's history of hesitating with making decisions, and overall not knowing what would happen. But everyone was "hoping and keeping their fingers crossed". :-/
When he got to court, he found out that the lady at Social Welfare had talked to the judge the day before, but he couldn't get an answer about what was said. During the court hearing, though, the lady said that she believed that the kids should absolutely go with Jason because we have been talking to them for a year and a half and are already a family.
Jason also told me that the adoption file was 250 pages, and the judge said she'd read everything in advance. I assume all the legal stuff was in there too.
The court hearing lasted about 10 minutes, the judge asked no questions, Liina had no reason to speak at all, and the judge approved the adoption!!! So after all this time, the kids are finally ours!!!
Igor showed up at court too, though Jason and the kids rode with the lawyer, because he wanted to be there. Jason said he's never seen Igor so happy.
Kersti was also there, and Jason made all attempts to be civil. He said he believes from talking to her that she does want what is best for the kids, she's just not always doing the smartest things. She speaks as though she's intelligent, but she doesn't act that way sometimes. We all know people like that...
She also said that this case does not set a precedent for other cases. Apparently in Estonia the judges make their own decisions, and any Russian child's adoption would be up in the air as far as what the judge would decide until legislation is passed. Apparently there is still one judge in the courthouse who still openly believes that consent should be required. Even though that's completely absurd.
Plus they are all paranoid about the Russians getting mad after the fact, even though it was the Estonians who misunderstood everything all along. Russia never cared, and the Russian Embassy in Tallinn was alerted to this adoption taking place several weeks ago.
Anyway, that's pretty much all the details I have right now. They will be all coming home on the 22nd. I'll keep you posted on their activities as much as I can.
Congratulations to us!!! WOOHOOOOO!!!
Love,
Molly
Thursday, August 13, 2009
Monday, July 6, 2009
Update of all updates
Well most of you know what's going on because we've been keeping you posted along the way off-blog. But just for the sake of the rest of you (and those of you who just enjoy checking the blog anyway!), here is an update.
Over the last month the MSA has stalled us every chance they (she) got. What was supposed to take a couple days - getting the documents approved by the Minister (the head of the MSA) - took 3 weeks. It was a seemingly never ending cycle of "hopefully by the end of the week", "hopefully early next week", "hopefully by the end of the week", "hopefully early next week." Finally it was done and sent to the courts. Within a day the judge was assigned and the lawyers attempted to contact her about arranging a court date as quickly as possible. That was a Monday and the judge was out of the court house until Thursday due to a holiday on Tuesday and Wednesday of that week. So we waited till Thursday - and she wasn't available to speak to the lawyers. Jason flipped out that day - that was like the end of his rope! Mainly because the first email we got that day was from Rutt and her words were that the judge "refused" to speak to them. Of course Rutt didn't mean that she refused in the way that we would take that, to mean that she was like "no way, I'm not speaking to no stinking lawyer!" She just wasn't available. So she said to call back on Monday. We waited through yet another agonizing weekend. Monday the lawyers called and didn't reach her, so Liina wrote her an email explaining everything. The judge wrote back and said that she hadn't had a chance to look at the file yet, but when she did she would let her know. UGH!
Finally the next day, last Tuesday, we got an email from Rutt (promptly followed by a call from Diana) saying that they received our court date. It is August 13th.
We had mixed emotions at first. Huge relief to finally know that we're at the end! We know when the kids are coming home, at last!!!!!!!! But disappointed that it is not sooner. 6 weeks notice is more than anyone else has ever gotten. I don't know if the judge is on vacation in July or what, but that's what is probably most likely. So we're sad that the kids will miss our family vacation, and most of the warm weather where we could do the most fun things with them. We have to be grateful, though, that after all we've been through that 6 weeks is all there is left to wait.
So 5 weeks from today Jason will hit the road (or, uh, air.) to go get the kids. FINALLY!!!!!! (Anna and I will be staying home to save money and to avoid missed income for two weeks. As much as we'd all love to be there and I'm bummed about missing the court date.)
So that's pretty much it for now! We've been really busy the last few weeks, so I skipped some of the minute details. It's been a rough ride, to say the least.
We called the kids on Friday night when they returned home from camp. They hadn't received our emails yet, so they didn't know about court. Their reaction was a little tepid, but they insisted that they are really happy. I personally think that they will take a few days to really start believing that this is finally it, that everything will be fine now. They have been just as disappointed along the way, I don't blame them if they're afraid to let themselves be really excited. But today we started getting long emails from them again (after not having received any in almost a month - which was making us both worry). Here is what some of them say:
From Roman:
"it is a great news for us, Katya and I so happy we were sitting together and talked about it we both are so excited because we are going to be home with you very soon and with whole family, we were so happy just to talk about that! I love our family , our family going to be very good and very happy because your going to be our parents
with love roma and Katya"
"I want to ask you please do not get sad because we are going to be home very soon"
Katya also wrote one asking when she would be able to go to the hotel after Jason arrives, and said that she's very happy and excited that they will be coming home to be with us, and that she loves us very much.
So I think that their resilience is holding up just a little while longer. I think this will be finally over not a moment too soon.
I'll keep you posted on the plans. :)
Love,
Molly
Over the last month the MSA has stalled us every chance they (she) got. What was supposed to take a couple days - getting the documents approved by the Minister (the head of the MSA) - took 3 weeks. It was a seemingly never ending cycle of "hopefully by the end of the week", "hopefully early next week", "hopefully by the end of the week", "hopefully early next week." Finally it was done and sent to the courts. Within a day the judge was assigned and the lawyers attempted to contact her about arranging a court date as quickly as possible. That was a Monday and the judge was out of the court house until Thursday due to a holiday on Tuesday and Wednesday of that week. So we waited till Thursday - and she wasn't available to speak to the lawyers. Jason flipped out that day - that was like the end of his rope! Mainly because the first email we got that day was from Rutt and her words were that the judge "refused" to speak to them. Of course Rutt didn't mean that she refused in the way that we would take that, to mean that she was like "no way, I'm not speaking to no stinking lawyer!" She just wasn't available. So she said to call back on Monday. We waited through yet another agonizing weekend. Monday the lawyers called and didn't reach her, so Liina wrote her an email explaining everything. The judge wrote back and said that she hadn't had a chance to look at the file yet, but when she did she would let her know. UGH!
Finally the next day, last Tuesday, we got an email from Rutt (promptly followed by a call from Diana) saying that they received our court date. It is August 13th.
We had mixed emotions at first. Huge relief to finally know that we're at the end! We know when the kids are coming home, at last!!!!!!!! But disappointed that it is not sooner. 6 weeks notice is more than anyone else has ever gotten. I don't know if the judge is on vacation in July or what, but that's what is probably most likely. So we're sad that the kids will miss our family vacation, and most of the warm weather where we could do the most fun things with them. We have to be grateful, though, that after all we've been through that 6 weeks is all there is left to wait.
So 5 weeks from today Jason will hit the road (or, uh, air.) to go get the kids. FINALLY!!!!!! (Anna and I will be staying home to save money and to avoid missed income for two weeks. As much as we'd all love to be there and I'm bummed about missing the court date.)
So that's pretty much it for now! We've been really busy the last few weeks, so I skipped some of the minute details. It's been a rough ride, to say the least.
We called the kids on Friday night when they returned home from camp. They hadn't received our emails yet, so they didn't know about court. Their reaction was a little tepid, but they insisted that they are really happy. I personally think that they will take a few days to really start believing that this is finally it, that everything will be fine now. They have been just as disappointed along the way, I don't blame them if they're afraid to let themselves be really excited. But today we started getting long emails from them again (after not having received any in almost a month - which was making us both worry). Here is what some of them say:
From Roman:
"it is a great news for us, Katya and I so happy we were sitting together and talked about it we both are so excited because we are going to be home with you very soon and with whole family, we were so happy just to talk about that! I love our family , our family going to be very good and very happy because your going to be our parents
with love roma and Katya"
"I want to ask you please do not get sad because we are going to be home very soon"
Katya also wrote one asking when she would be able to go to the hotel after Jason arrives, and said that she's very happy and excited that they will be coming home to be with us, and that she loves us very much.
So I think that their resilience is holding up just a little while longer. I think this will be finally over not a moment too soon.
I'll keep you posted on the plans. :)
Love,
Molly
Monday, June 1, 2009
Nothing real yet
Our court petition made it to Liina on Friday, who sent it to Kersti along with all of the translated documents from the week before. Translations of our dossier were a lot quicker with a lawyer overseeing it! :)
Everything is in Kersti's hands as of this morning. She said she would prepare everything for court very quickly, but she couldn't give the lawyers any new indication of when court might be. So I asked Liina some follow up questions (she'll call me later today to answer) about how things work with getting a court date so hopefully we can at least get a little bit of a hint as to when it will probably be. But in comparison with when we got Anna - we formally accepted her referral mid October when she was officially available, got her court petition 10/31 (and it was sent through Diana to Igor to Kersti, so would have taken longer to get back to Kersti than K&R's court petition did), our court docs were submitted to court for her sometime after Kersti received back the court petition, and we had court on 1/22. Which means that we found out our court date for her less than 2 months after our documents were submitted to court.
From now we have 5 weeks till courts close. So that should mean that with a even a little extra effort there shouldn't be a reason not to get court before the closing. But we'll see.
It's tough waiting every day knowing you can hear something any time or you could hear nothing for weeks. But that is kind of what we've been doing for the last 9 months. At least Liina & Rutt will be staying on top of Kersti until it's done!
I'll keep you all posted!
Love,
Molly
Everything is in Kersti's hands as of this morning. She said she would prepare everything for court very quickly, but she couldn't give the lawyers any new indication of when court might be. So I asked Liina some follow up questions (she'll call me later today to answer) about how things work with getting a court date so hopefully we can at least get a little bit of a hint as to when it will probably be. But in comparison with when we got Anna - we formally accepted her referral mid October when she was officially available, got her court petition 10/31 (and it was sent through Diana to Igor to Kersti, so would have taken longer to get back to Kersti than K&R's court petition did), our court docs were submitted to court for her sometime after Kersti received back the court petition, and we had court on 1/22. Which means that we found out our court date for her less than 2 months after our documents were submitted to court.
From now we have 5 weeks till courts close. So that should mean that with a even a little extra effort there shouldn't be a reason not to get court before the closing. But we'll see.
It's tough waiting every day knowing you can hear something any time or you could hear nothing for weeks. But that is kind of what we've been doing for the last 9 months. At least Liina & Rutt will be staying on top of Kersti until it's done!
I'll keep you all posted!
Love,
Molly
Tuesday, May 26, 2009
Quick News:
We got our court petition this morning from Kersti! Seems like she wrote it out and emailed it to Diana as soon as she found out that the lawyers had our documents (which Liina received late yesterday). I wish she would have sent it before so we could have saved a trip to Harrisburg apostilling one more document! But we'll probably have to go once or twice more after this anyway for one thing or another.
But anyway, this means a few things:
First of all, as soon as that document is done and sent to Estonia, then all documents will be ready for court.
Second - the MSA issues that court petition, NOT the court. Maybe Kersti has to have approval from court to do that for individual cases, I don't know. But either way when people receive their court petitions, that doesn't mean that the documents are already in court necessarily. Our documents are not yet in court.
Third - the second thing above is a good thing... That means that it can take relatively no time at all to have a court date scheduled from the time the dossier enters the court house. I'd been told before that you can possibly get a court date a couple weeks after you get a court petition. (Or it could be months too, it depends on the region... In Narva for example the papers could sit in the court house for awhile too, before the court date is scheduled. Tallinn is faster.)
Kersti asked Diana if we will have Liina represent us or if we will travel for the court hearing. Our answer was that Liina will be there either way, but Jason will plan to travel without me (so I can take care of Anna and save $ on plane ticket, as much as I'd like to be there). But Liina can represent us in court alone without Jason personally there if that means court can happen sooner. So basically to do whatever is fastest.
It seems like everyone is preparing and doing everything possible to get court immediately, under the crazy circumstances. After all, if we had to wait till September, it would be like our wait has started over from now and we will be a year late getting them home only because of their mistakes. Liina said she believes Kersti understands the urgency of the situation, and said that she now has a "good efficient communication relationship with her."
We got an invoice for the attorney's fees for April - and we were already over our 10 hour retainer before the month of May even started. EEEEEK. I don't know how many hours they likely used in May, but probably we'll owe a few more thousand to Liina before all is said and done. But as you all know, we'll do whatever it takes to get our kids home.
Recent emails from the kids (thanks again to Larisa for your help!!):
From Roman-
"I love you too very much and want to be with you. Say hi to all relatives and friends, we love them too. Thank you for doing everything you can. It makes me feel very happy."
From Katya-
"I hope we can be with you [on vacation] in July. Do not worry, everything is going to be fine. I love you and Roman loves you too. Mom and Dad could you send us some sweets Roma wants them a lot and so do I, only if it is not hard for you. I think about Nastja, I wonder how she behaves good or bad. Mom and Dad I would like a plush toy for myself, for example a tiger or something else, only if you don't mind."
They're so sweet and funny.
More later!
Love,
Molly
But anyway, this means a few things:
First of all, as soon as that document is done and sent to Estonia, then all documents will be ready for court.
Second - the MSA issues that court petition, NOT the court. Maybe Kersti has to have approval from court to do that for individual cases, I don't know. But either way when people receive their court petitions, that doesn't mean that the documents are already in court necessarily. Our documents are not yet in court.
Third - the second thing above is a good thing... That means that it can take relatively no time at all to have a court date scheduled from the time the dossier enters the court house. I'd been told before that you can possibly get a court date a couple weeks after you get a court petition. (Or it could be months too, it depends on the region... In Narva for example the papers could sit in the court house for awhile too, before the court date is scheduled. Tallinn is faster.)
Kersti asked Diana if we will have Liina represent us or if we will travel for the court hearing. Our answer was that Liina will be there either way, but Jason will plan to travel without me (so I can take care of Anna and save $ on plane ticket, as much as I'd like to be there). But Liina can represent us in court alone without Jason personally there if that means court can happen sooner. So basically to do whatever is fastest.
It seems like everyone is preparing and doing everything possible to get court immediately, under the crazy circumstances. After all, if we had to wait till September, it would be like our wait has started over from now and we will be a year late getting them home only because of their mistakes. Liina said she believes Kersti understands the urgency of the situation, and said that she now has a "good efficient communication relationship with her."
We got an invoice for the attorney's fees for April - and we were already over our 10 hour retainer before the month of May even started. EEEEEK. I don't know how many hours they likely used in May, but probably we'll owe a few more thousand to Liina before all is said and done. But as you all know, we'll do whatever it takes to get our kids home.
Recent emails from the kids (thanks again to Larisa for your help!!):
From Roman-
"I love you too very much and want to be with you. Say hi to all relatives and friends, we love them too. Thank you for doing everything you can. It makes me feel very happy."
From Katya-
"I hope we can be with you [on vacation] in July. Do not worry, everything is going to be fine. I love you and Roman loves you too. Mom and Dad could you send us some sweets Roma wants them a lot and so do I, only if it is not hard for you. I think about Nastja, I wonder how she behaves good or bad. Mom and Dad I would like a plush toy for myself, for example a tiger or something else, only if you don't mind."
They're so sweet and funny.
More later!
Love,
Molly
Monday, May 18, 2009
Kersti's reaction
Today's events went as well as can be expected I think. Diana talked to Kersti, who hadn't at the time spoken to Rutt yet. Kersti told Diana that she was waiting for a letter from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs about the bilateral agreement, and after that she'd hopefully be able to submit the dossier to court. But she wanted to know how we would feel about sending her new originals to submit to court instead of her having to pull the old originals out of the court where we adopted Anna. Some of them might be out of date anyway. Diana told her that we'd already started to anticipate that and we would send over new originals as soon as we had them all. Diana said Kersti's tone was better than usual - like she was assuming that everything would go to court and be fine.
Later I got an email from Rutt saying she'd talked to Kersti and told her about the MFA's decision. Rutt talked to her about submitting the dossier and Kersti told her the same thing she'd said to Diana about our originals.
So it does seem like the letter from the MFA is doing its job!
I got an email from Anna Valentina yesterday (Katya & Roman's former caretaker). She said she wondered if it might be possible to get Estonian government to agree to allow the adoption without involving Russia because she was feeling like consent from Russia could not be gotten. I wrote her back and told her what happened - that we'd already tried that and seems like it worked.
We told the kids (in an email) that we were able to get part of the Estonian government to agree that consent from Russia is not necessary for their adoption, which would mean that their adoption problems were fixed and we just needed to wait for court again. They wrote back very excited about that! But none of us know how long it will take to get a court date from here.
We have been working like crazy since everything started to be resolved, getting new originals for our dossier just in case they asked for them. We knew they would not give us any notice about needing them, so we just planned for it just in case. It takes a few weeks to do, but fortunately we should have everything done by Wednesday morning. Then we can FedEx the documents to the lawyer, who will take them to Kersti. That means theoretically the documents could be in court midweek next week, and that leaves us roughly 5 weeks till the courts close for the summer. It seems like Kersti is willing to make this an urgent matter, so there is still a good chance that we could get squeezed in before courts close. Seems like the least they can do after putting us through all this for nothing!
That's all for today. I'll keep you posted!! Sooooo glad things are starting to go well for a change!
Love,
Molly
Later I got an email from Rutt saying she'd talked to Kersti and told her about the MFA's decision. Rutt talked to her about submitting the dossier and Kersti told her the same thing she'd said to Diana about our originals.
So it does seem like the letter from the MFA is doing its job!
I got an email from Anna Valentina yesterday (Katya & Roman's former caretaker). She said she wondered if it might be possible to get Estonian government to agree to allow the adoption without involving Russia because she was feeling like consent from Russia could not be gotten. I wrote her back and told her what happened - that we'd already tried that and seems like it worked.
We told the kids (in an email) that we were able to get part of the Estonian government to agree that consent from Russia is not necessary for their adoption, which would mean that their adoption problems were fixed and we just needed to wait for court again. They wrote back very excited about that! But none of us know how long it will take to get a court date from here.
We have been working like crazy since everything started to be resolved, getting new originals for our dossier just in case they asked for them. We knew they would not give us any notice about needing them, so we just planned for it just in case. It takes a few weeks to do, but fortunately we should have everything done by Wednesday morning. Then we can FedEx the documents to the lawyer, who will take them to Kersti. That means theoretically the documents could be in court midweek next week, and that leaves us roughly 5 weeks till the courts close for the summer. It seems like Kersti is willing to make this an urgent matter, so there is still a good chance that we could get squeezed in before courts close. Seems like the least they can do after putting us through all this for nothing!
That's all for today. I'll keep you posted!! Sooooo glad things are starting to go well for a change!
Love,
Molly
Friday, May 15, 2009
Relax this weekend.
Well we were supposed to find out this week what the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MFA) would write in response to Liina and Rutt's letter about the laws. So we waited every day, hoping for some news... I told Jason that "this week" means at least Friday, as far as I'm concerned. Everything takes the absolute maximum (and then some) amount of time. So I asked Rutt yesterday if she still expected to hear this week. She said if she didn't get the letter by today she would call and find out what's going on. At 7:30 this morning I called Rutt (2:30pm in Estonia) and asked if she received it. She said no, and she said she'd call and talk to them. I asked her to see if they could fax her the letter, if it's been completed, so we don't have to worry all weekend. She agreed and said she'd email me as soon as she finds something out.
A few minutes later I got an email from her saying that the letter was mailed by the MFA but she hadn't received it yet, but she got an electronic version of the letter. So now we know what the MFA says! As we all hoped, they confirmed that CONSENT FROM RUSSIA IS NOT NEEDED for this adoption case. WOOHOO!!!
They said that the Russian Embassy should be notified that their citizens are leaving the country, but that's all. I called Rutt to get clarification. She told me that notification is simply that - notification. Not permission, not request, not anything that they would respond to. Seems to be a normal part of the procedure. I told her my only concern was that since Kersti was convinced by someone that the Russian Embassy has a problem with the adoptions of Russian citizens, that involving the Embassy at all might cause a problem. She said that was only in relation to getting documents from the Embassy (i.e. passports), was likely not true anyway, and there is nothing that is needed FROM the Embassy.
We did find out from Igor that the kids already do have travel passports. So as far as I know we'll just be leaving their names the same and using their old passports to exit, just to save time if nothing else. In the next couple weeks we should be learning more about the specifics of the document procedures. But the most important hurdle has been successfully jumped, finally. The MFA, who is the known authority on international law in Estonia, has said that consent is not needed.
Liina told me last week that if the MFA said that, then the MSA would absolutely have no problem proceeding with the adoption without consent from Russia. So I hope and believe that the only issues that will stand in the way now is minor stupid delays and the lawyers curbing any concerns that Kersti has regarding how to actually DO everything now. We're going to tell Liina and Rutt to impose their assistance continually until the end - making sure Kersti doesn't stall something in any way, and make sure that this notification to the Embassy is done properly so no problems come out of it. We're also going to ask them to aggressively push Kersti to do whatever she has to do to get us a court date before the court closing in July. It's been a year since we met the kids and submitted our dossier, and it would be completely unfair to have to wait until the fall again. After everything they've put us through, the least they can do is treat this like an urgent matter.
That's all the real news I have for now! I'll let you know what details I learn next week. Rutt is going to speak to Kersti on Monday and explain what the MFA said, and go from there.
Everyone can take a deep breath of relief for now, though, at least for the weekend! Finally some indication that we are winning this long fight!
Love,
Molly
A few minutes later I got an email from her saying that the letter was mailed by the MFA but she hadn't received it yet, but she got an electronic version of the letter. So now we know what the MFA says! As we all hoped, they confirmed that CONSENT FROM RUSSIA IS NOT NEEDED for this adoption case. WOOHOO!!!
They said that the Russian Embassy should be notified that their citizens are leaving the country, but that's all. I called Rutt to get clarification. She told me that notification is simply that - notification. Not permission, not request, not anything that they would respond to. Seems to be a normal part of the procedure. I told her my only concern was that since Kersti was convinced by someone that the Russian Embassy has a problem with the adoptions of Russian citizens, that involving the Embassy at all might cause a problem. She said that was only in relation to getting documents from the Embassy (i.e. passports), was likely not true anyway, and there is nothing that is needed FROM the Embassy.
We did find out from Igor that the kids already do have travel passports. So as far as I know we'll just be leaving their names the same and using their old passports to exit, just to save time if nothing else. In the next couple weeks we should be learning more about the specifics of the document procedures. But the most important hurdle has been successfully jumped, finally. The MFA, who is the known authority on international law in Estonia, has said that consent is not needed.
Liina told me last week that if the MFA said that, then the MSA would absolutely have no problem proceeding with the adoption without consent from Russia. So I hope and believe that the only issues that will stand in the way now is minor stupid delays and the lawyers curbing any concerns that Kersti has regarding how to actually DO everything now. We're going to tell Liina and Rutt to impose their assistance continually until the end - making sure Kersti doesn't stall something in any way, and make sure that this notification to the Embassy is done properly so no problems come out of it. We're also going to ask them to aggressively push Kersti to do whatever she has to do to get us a court date before the court closing in July. It's been a year since we met the kids and submitted our dossier, and it would be completely unfair to have to wait until the fall again. After everything they've put us through, the least they can do is treat this like an urgent matter.
That's all the real news I have for now! I'll let you know what details I learn next week. Rutt is going to speak to Kersti on Monday and explain what the MFA said, and go from there.
Everyone can take a deep breath of relief for now, though, at least for the weekend! Finally some indication that we are winning this long fight!
Love,
Molly
Tuesday, May 5, 2009
You know that game called "Telephone"?
Update!
I talked to Liina for about a half hour today. I love talking to her, she is very thorough and very determined. She likes to tell me all the details, which I love. But of course I can't write them all!
First of all, I got questions about whether this is a personal thing with Kersti that she just wants to stop this adoption no matter what. I can't list all the reasons why, but we definitely have enough information to know for sure that it's not personal. This is a country-wide problem from a misunderstanding and story that basically ran wild, and the story did not originally come from Kersti. All of the Russian children adoptions are on hold until this is resolved, not just ours. So resolving this would mean helping all of the Russian kids in Estonia.
By the way, we also learned enough details to marginally justify the kids having been given Russian citizenship. It might have been debatable on a number of topics, but it's too late now. They have Russian citizenship and dissolving it, even based on legal reasons, would be nearly impossible because that would mean involving Russia. Which obviously we're trying NOT to do.
The news from Liina today is basically this:
The bilateral agreement misunderstanding basically came from a diplomatic letter that was sent to the Estonian internal affairs office from Russia a long time ago, which was read and commented on in a letter to the MSA from someone at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (hereafter "MFA"). Both letters were very vague, and said that the bilateral agreement should be taken into consideration in regard to adoption of Russian citizens. No one looked into the law to check for exceptions. The primary exception being that it doesn't apply when the kids are going out of Estonia.
In the meantime, Kersti and the entire MSA, as well as the Citizenship and Migration Board, and other organizations in Estonia all came to believe that the consent from Russia was necessary for ALL adoptions of Russian children. From this came other stories about what the Russian Embassy is doing and saying, which can't be confirmed without risking inadvertently making the Russian Embassy interested in something they probably don't even know about now.
But basically Kersti was being told different things from different people and no one was figuring anything out. They came to believe consent was necessary for so many months, that when the lawyer came with all this new information it shook everyone up and now it just has taken a little time for everyone to re-collect their ideas and make a new opinion.
Liina tells me that the MFA legal department is analyzing this as a group - sitting down with all the laws and figuring out whether this adoption applies to us at all. She said they are international law experts and the ones responsible for writing bilateral agreements like this one in question. We expect to get their official response next week, but the unofficial word is that everyone seems to believe that it is very difficult to apply the bilateral agreement to our adoption. If that is what they write officially to the MSA, then the MSA will continue with the adoption. They will do what the MFA says, using that as the basis for setting the procedure to be followed. If the MFA gives a reason why the consent IS needed (which doesn't seem to be likely), then Liina believes that there must be a real reason that she is not considering (which will be outlined in their letter). So basically what they say, goes. If they decide the adoption is legal now, then everything is good and the kids can use old passports (if they have them - Igor is checking that now) and get out of the country with them in their old names. If they don't have them, then they'll get them in their old names before the adoption, I think. If the MFA says consent is needed, then the MSA will be able to communicate with Moscow with a clear expression of what is needed and exactly why. The reason no consent has been received from Russia now is basically the letter that was sent through Dmitry has confused reasons about WHY consent is needed. Which makes the Russians basically be confused and ignore it.
Either way, the MFA will be helping clear this up. The best option is of course that they do write agreeing that the bilateral agreement does not apply to this adoption. That seems now to be the most likely scenario.
It's so nice to finally be getting to the bottom of all this. Liina thinks that it's all crazy that this has gotten so confused, lost in translation, blown out of proportion and took so long to figure out. But if it wasn't for her and Rutt, we wouldn't get anywhere because no one would have considered that they were wrong all this time.
I'll let you all know what we hear between now and the time when the letter comes from the MFA. But all of you please keep us in your prayers. It's a very stressful situation that has taken a huge toll on the whole family, especially us and the kids. Honestly I'm not sure how our nervous systems have survived this long.
Please, let all of this be over soon.
Love,
Molly
I talked to Liina for about a half hour today. I love talking to her, she is very thorough and very determined. She likes to tell me all the details, which I love. But of course I can't write them all!
First of all, I got questions about whether this is a personal thing with Kersti that she just wants to stop this adoption no matter what. I can't list all the reasons why, but we definitely have enough information to know for sure that it's not personal. This is a country-wide problem from a misunderstanding and story that basically ran wild, and the story did not originally come from Kersti. All of the Russian children adoptions are on hold until this is resolved, not just ours. So resolving this would mean helping all of the Russian kids in Estonia.
By the way, we also learned enough details to marginally justify the kids having been given Russian citizenship. It might have been debatable on a number of topics, but it's too late now. They have Russian citizenship and dissolving it, even based on legal reasons, would be nearly impossible because that would mean involving Russia. Which obviously we're trying NOT to do.
The news from Liina today is basically this:
The bilateral agreement misunderstanding basically came from a diplomatic letter that was sent to the Estonian internal affairs office from Russia a long time ago, which was read and commented on in a letter to the MSA from someone at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (hereafter "MFA"). Both letters were very vague, and said that the bilateral agreement should be taken into consideration in regard to adoption of Russian citizens. No one looked into the law to check for exceptions. The primary exception being that it doesn't apply when the kids are going out of Estonia.
In the meantime, Kersti and the entire MSA, as well as the Citizenship and Migration Board, and other organizations in Estonia all came to believe that the consent from Russia was necessary for ALL adoptions of Russian children. From this came other stories about what the Russian Embassy is doing and saying, which can't be confirmed without risking inadvertently making the Russian Embassy interested in something they probably don't even know about now.
But basically Kersti was being told different things from different people and no one was figuring anything out. They came to believe consent was necessary for so many months, that when the lawyer came with all this new information it shook everyone up and now it just has taken a little time for everyone to re-collect their ideas and make a new opinion.
Liina tells me that the MFA legal department is analyzing this as a group - sitting down with all the laws and figuring out whether this adoption applies to us at all. She said they are international law experts and the ones responsible for writing bilateral agreements like this one in question. We expect to get their official response next week, but the unofficial word is that everyone seems to believe that it is very difficult to apply the bilateral agreement to our adoption. If that is what they write officially to the MSA, then the MSA will continue with the adoption. They will do what the MFA says, using that as the basis for setting the procedure to be followed. If the MFA gives a reason why the consent IS needed (which doesn't seem to be likely), then Liina believes that there must be a real reason that she is not considering (which will be outlined in their letter). So basically what they say, goes. If they decide the adoption is legal now, then everything is good and the kids can use old passports (if they have them - Igor is checking that now) and get out of the country with them in their old names. If they don't have them, then they'll get them in their old names before the adoption, I think. If the MFA says consent is needed, then the MSA will be able to communicate with Moscow with a clear expression of what is needed and exactly why. The reason no consent has been received from Russia now is basically the letter that was sent through Dmitry has confused reasons about WHY consent is needed. Which makes the Russians basically be confused and ignore it.
Either way, the MFA will be helping clear this up. The best option is of course that they do write agreeing that the bilateral agreement does not apply to this adoption. That seems now to be the most likely scenario.
It's so nice to finally be getting to the bottom of all this. Liina thinks that it's all crazy that this has gotten so confused, lost in translation, blown out of proportion and took so long to figure out. But if it wasn't for her and Rutt, we wouldn't get anywhere because no one would have considered that they were wrong all this time.
I'll let you all know what we hear between now and the time when the letter comes from the MFA. But all of you please keep us in your prayers. It's a very stressful situation that has taken a huge toll on the whole family, especially us and the kids. Honestly I'm not sure how our nervous systems have survived this long.
Please, let all of this be over soon.
Love,
Molly
Subscribe to:
Posts (Atom)