Update continued!
Here is what we know so far about Estonia and the adoption program there...
The things that are different about the Estonian program from the Ukrainian program.
1) Ukraine doesn't allow pre-selection. This can be a good thing compared to many other adoption programs that are 100% pre-selection. For example, Russia's program is pre-selection... well sort of. With Russia, (the following is all hearsay, so this may not always be the case) the family decides what they want to adopt - i.e. 3 year old girl. They submit their dossier to Russia, they wait for a referral. Their referral consists of a name and an age. They go to Russia to meet their referral, spending a couple weeks there. From what I understand there is a lot of red tape, so every trip there takes a long time. If the referral doesn't work out, the family goes home to wait for another referral. If it does work out, they go home, wait for the process to be completed (a few months) and go back for anywhere from 2-5 weeks, to finalize and go home. This is not the kind of pre-selection I like. This is partially, I imagine, why the Russian program costs so much money.
Estonia is a pre-selection program, but not like Russia's. You choose a child based on a photo listing, which is pretty much exactly what it sounds like. You learn about the child while you're still at home. Videos, medical records, etc. Whatever is available. If there is a child you're interested in, the agency puts a hold on that child until you can meet them. You are supposed to go for a preview trip to visit them before you decide for sure. You only have to be there for 5 hours, so the trip is quick. If needed, more than one child can be visited during that trip if there is another you're interested in that is available, if the first doesn't work out. If you want to adopt that child, you go home and you finish paperwork. One of the big advantages is that your dossier doesn't have to be complete yet. You can preview before the dossier is done. So we don't have to get all our paperwork completed and have everything say "Estonia" on it before we actually choose a child.
After the paperwork is done, you go back to Estonia to finalize, which takes a week or two.
So 2) is that the trips are much shorter, even though two is generally required instead of one trip. Still cheaper for us. Both of us being gone for 6 weeks is a big deal.
3) Only one of us has to go on both trips. One of us could stay home. We will probably both go if/when it comes time to go meet a child. But to finalize, I could stay here to keep working and income coming in, and Jason could go finalize.
4) The program is much smaller and simpler. There are only 6 main orphanages in the country, only 10 international adoptions per year (their quota is 30). That can mean that when children appear on the photo listing that there may be competition, but it doesn't really seem like so much. In fact the program doesn't seem to be that well known. But I can see why I guess... There are no babies ever available, or at least it's very rare. That's fine for us, but not for many people. Ukraine does about 1500 international adoptions yearly. So people would imagine that with Ukraine they would have more of a selection. They'd be wrong right now though! LOL Plus the one-trip process seems to be advantage with Ukraine vs. having to go twice.
5) Their paperwork requirements are much easier to accomplish. It's pretty simple.
6) The country's culture is more like Western Europe even though it's in E. E. I'm not really totally familiar with all the differences that involves, but I'm told that's a good thing when it comes to visiting and finalizing adoption and dealing with the gov't.
7) The cost is the same, and more potential to be less than Ukraine, including travel. Ukraine has the potential of being more $ than planned.
8) You know how much you'll have to pay for "international fees" (finalizing documents, court fees, translator, etc.) before you even choose the child. The fees are set based on the region a child is in and whether the child is older, is a sibling set, or has special needs. It's cheaper for that child the less likely they are to be adopted.
9) There is only one agency in the US that is licensed to work with Estonia. So there is only one website to check for updated photo listings. There is one group of people in the US who run the adoption program in the US, which means you know exactly who to contact and they hopefully know what they're doing. They are in SC, and seem to be nice people. Straightforward, detailed, and easy to contact. Having only one agency allowed to do this to me is an advantage. It's less chaotic.
So overall the advantages are that we can choose a child and know the costs involved before we set foot out of the country. We won't go over there for 6 weeks, spend all our money and come home childless. The only possibility of waste is a quick trip over there to visit a child who doesn't work out. We'll know who our child is going to be for months before we come home with her/them. We can plan a little better.
It may take awhile before our child shows up on the website and we get going. But I'd rather have to wait for a program that I'm comfortable with, seems easier and simpler, less expensive and more certain (even though nothing is certain in the adoption process), than wait and wait for who knows how long for a system that is in total chaos and doesn't seem to care about the adopting families.
Currently there are a couple of sibling sets we would consider, but they are not yet legally free for adoption. They are still waiting to receive their files with their medical info and everything, and be given permission from Estonia to officially adopt them out. The original person who told me about this program said that there are usually a few new kids on there every month or two, and that kids don't stay on there with "administrative holds" or "not legally free for adoption yet" for very long. So we'll see how long it takes.
If this doesn't work out, there may be other options. We're still researching Estonia and not completely sold on it yet, just for the sake of not jumping into things too quickly. But that's one of the things I like about it. We don't have to be sold on the country's program until we see a child that we love.
Promise to keep you all posted. :)
Love,
Molly
Friday, March 14, 2008
Wednesday, March 12, 2008
Not yet. But you ASKED for it! Long update...
(Not reread for typos and corrections... sorry for any errors!)
Sorry for no updates in a really long time! It seemed like for months, nothing was happening. Waiting... Waiting... Waiting. Now, we're still waiting but not in the same way.
Condensing the details as much as possible...
As a review of what occurred over the last 8 months with trying to get our home study done, remember our SW (social worker) Dan left abruptly and no one let us know. We got in touch with someone finally on our new SW's day. At that point we had been 5 months into the home study that should have taken 2 months to complete. Then we told Stan the new SW what to do to complete the home study because he'd never done an international home study before. It was finally completed at the end of January (8 month point). The next step was for him to send it to the state USCIS (US Citizen's and Immigration Services) office to be matched with our original adoption application (form I-600a). We waited 5 weeks, waiting for our approval letter (form I-171H) from the state. At the time we were supposed to receive the form, instead we got a letter from Stan saying that USCIS sent the home study back to him, saying there was no I-600a on file for us! He asked if I filed one. I told him, again, that I had, they cashed my check, and I had a confirmation letter from them.
I called the USCIS local office and they found it without a problem by having me spell Jason's last name. I bet you can guess (those who don't already know the story...) what the problem was???? I went home, looked at a copy of the home study that Stan sent me a couple weeks before, and what do you know?! Jason's name had an extra O. Common mistake, probably. But the most important correctly spelled word in the whole home study!!!! So I overnighted a copy of the home study that I had to the USCIS along with a letter stating the correct spelling. Now we're at the back of the line. The guy there told me that the wait time now for the I-171H form was 6-8 weeks. So another month and a half or two month delay because of the home study.
That was the absolute last straw. I found out, at that point, who was the boss of former SW Dan and current SW Stan, and the name of the president of the agency. I figured out what their email addresses must be (based on the naming convention of Stan's email address), and sent a one and a half page complaint letter outlining in detail all of the above. (Anyone who hasn't and wants to read the letter for entertainment purposes, feel free to email me to ask for it!) I ended it with a hint: "I look forward to hearing from someone, with more than insincere apologies, as soon as possible. Feel free to forward this letter to anyone who can do something about this."
At this point I feel obligated to thank my parents for bestowing upon me the hereditary ability to write good complaint letters. :-D
The next day I got an email back from the president saying that she was very sorry, and needed a day or two to investigate, and that she would get back to me as soon as possible. She said that my experience was not in keeping with their standards and that they do, in fact, care about children (which I had questioned in my letter... After all, they were making an orphan wait longer for a home!).
Two weeks passed and nothing was heard. I wrote asking for an update during that time, too.
Then we come to this past Monday. Monday we found out a few things. First of all, after not hearing from the agency, we decided to write one more letter, more official, and if we still didn't hear anything by a deadline we made clear (next Monday), then we'd take them to court. I hadn't yet officially asked for a refund, so that's what needed to be done first. Second, we found out that Ukraine decided to impose a quota on international adoption dossiers that will be accepted for submission in 2008, and SOMEHOW that quota has ALREADY BEEN MET. Which means, unless they change their mind, even if we sent our dossier now it may not get submitted until next year. That knowledge made us even more angry at the agency for delaying us, as you can imagine. We hear that that new policy is unlikely to stick, but still. We're not likely to be optimistic about delays in this process!
Third, we found out what some families were experiencing recently when they have gone to Ukraine. Before I explain what's going on, you need to remember how the process works. After the dossier is sent, translated, submitted to the SDA in Ukraine (State Dept. of Adoptions), and accepted, the SDA sends an invitation to visit for a one hour appointment on a certain day. That day is usually a month or two out from when you get the letter. You travel, meet for that appointment and they show you files of available children. You choose one, they give you the referral, and you go to that orphanage to visit the child. If that child doesn't work out for you, you go back to the SDA, get another appointment for anywhere from a day to a few days later, look at files again and get another referral. You keep doing that until you find your child. Most adopt their first or second referral.
So... What we found out is that many many many families are going over there, after having spent all the money on translation of their dossier, travel, etc., go in for their SDA appointment, and are given only a few files, mostly of VERY sick kids. For example a few families told me that they were asking for a girl under 6, relatively healthy, and they'd be shown 5 files. Two would be boys, both very sick, two would be girls and older than what they wanted, and one would be a girl in their age range but somewhat sick. They'd take the best of the 5 (which seems like a mind game to me to get more sick kids adopted out) and go see her. Sometimes they'd get lucky and the file was wrong and the child was pretty healthy.
Then there are many other families who would go, ask to see a child under 5 or 6 that was relatively healthy (correctable or manageable issues) and they would say they didn't have any. They'd have to take older or sicker or siblings.
When I say very sick, by the way, I mean cerebral palsy, HIV, hepatitis, quadriplegic, or at least Downs, mental retardation, or severe FAS.
Currently we'd be happy with any child under 6, and maybe even siblings, with correctable or manageable issues. Heart murmur, malnourished, developmental delays, speech problems, crossed eyes, mild FAS, etc.
We heard that there are more families coming home without children because of the lack of options the SDA is giving them. They run out of time and money and go home.
Those things all considered, we quickly got uncomfortable with Ukraine, at least the way it's going now. The SDA has a new director and there are so many things changing, up in the air, etc. Most people on the message boards are saying that people who go over anytime in the new future would have a hard time getting a relatively healthy individual child under 8 and only slightly more likely if they take siblings.
We're really not willing to go through all of this, go over, and risk coming home with nothing after six weeks away from home and all of our money spent. So at the very least, we're backing off the process with Ukraine for now. Even if we didn't want to back off, looks like there's no reason to rush. Delays are the only thing certain right now with that program.
Back to the home study agency... I wrote a letter, after learning of all of this info and being even more angry at the mess we've been pushed into by the delay. After summarizing the difficulties and delays with the home study process, I wrote:
I sent this letter on Monday by certified mail. On Tuesday they received it. Tuesday afternoon I got a call from a man named Pete. He let me know that the president had received my letter, and he asked her if he could call me himself since he was one of the people involved in the fact finding investigation. He said that he whole-heartedly apologized, he couldn't believe that this happened, they thoroughly agree with our assessment of what occurred, were providing more training for their employees, and they would be happy to refund our money.
WOOHOO! So Tuesday was a better day than Monday.
So, in all fairness since they did resolve this eventually, we will refrain from badmouthing them all over the internet, of which I really am capable! ha ha
Whew... OK now here's the next news. (See, I'm making up for the lack of updates!)
There were posts on the message board during all this from a few people saying that they recently finished their adoption and things worked out eventually but if they had it to do over they'd adopt from a different country. One lady posted a message saying that she had switched mid process from Hungary to Serbia because of similar issues that people are having with Ukraine, and it's not hard at all to switch the documents. I confirmed this, somewhat, and wrote her an email asking if she had any country recommendations. She asked what we were looking for, I told her, and she said she was quite familiar with the adoption program from Estonia.
So now we're researching that possibility and are so far very impressed with it. It has it's pluses and minuses, but mostly it has the advantages we want and disadvantages we can probably handle better than Ukraine's disadvantages.
I have to get ready for the meeting (religious, for those of you who don't know) so I gotta run, but next post - hopefully tonight - I'll write about Estonia and it's possibilities.
Till later!
Love,
Molly
Sorry for no updates in a really long time! It seemed like for months, nothing was happening. Waiting... Waiting... Waiting. Now, we're still waiting but not in the same way.
Condensing the details as much as possible...
As a review of what occurred over the last 8 months with trying to get our home study done, remember our SW (social worker) Dan left abruptly and no one let us know. We got in touch with someone finally on our new SW's day. At that point we had been 5 months into the home study that should have taken 2 months to complete. Then we told Stan the new SW what to do to complete the home study because he'd never done an international home study before. It was finally completed at the end of January (8 month point). The next step was for him to send it to the state USCIS (US Citizen's and Immigration Services) office to be matched with our original adoption application (form I-600a). We waited 5 weeks, waiting for our approval letter (form I-171H) from the state. At the time we were supposed to receive the form, instead we got a letter from Stan saying that USCIS sent the home study back to him, saying there was no I-600a on file for us! He asked if I filed one. I told him, again, that I had, they cashed my check, and I had a confirmation letter from them.
I called the USCIS local office and they found it without a problem by having me spell Jason's last name. I bet you can guess (those who don't already know the story...) what the problem was???? I went home, looked at a copy of the home study that Stan sent me a couple weeks before, and what do you know?! Jason's name had an extra O. Common mistake, probably. But the most important correctly spelled word in the whole home study!!!! So I overnighted a copy of the home study that I had to the USCIS along with a letter stating the correct spelling. Now we're at the back of the line. The guy there told me that the wait time now for the I-171H form was 6-8 weeks. So another month and a half or two month delay because of the home study.
That was the absolute last straw. I found out, at that point, who was the boss of former SW Dan and current SW Stan, and the name of the president of the agency. I figured out what their email addresses must be (based on the naming convention of Stan's email address), and sent a one and a half page complaint letter outlining in detail all of the above. (Anyone who hasn't and wants to read the letter for entertainment purposes, feel free to email me to ask for it!) I ended it with a hint: "I look forward to hearing from someone, with more than insincere apologies, as soon as possible. Feel free to forward this letter to anyone who can do something about this."
At this point I feel obligated to thank my parents for bestowing upon me the hereditary ability to write good complaint letters. :-D
The next day I got an email back from the president saying that she was very sorry, and needed a day or two to investigate, and that she would get back to me as soon as possible. She said that my experience was not in keeping with their standards and that they do, in fact, care about children (which I had questioned in my letter... After all, they were making an orphan wait longer for a home!).
Two weeks passed and nothing was heard. I wrote asking for an update during that time, too.
Then we come to this past Monday. Monday we found out a few things. First of all, after not hearing from the agency, we decided to write one more letter, more official, and if we still didn't hear anything by a deadline we made clear (next Monday), then we'd take them to court. I hadn't yet officially asked for a refund, so that's what needed to be done first. Second, we found out that Ukraine decided to impose a quota on international adoption dossiers that will be accepted for submission in 2008, and SOMEHOW that quota has ALREADY BEEN MET. Which means, unless they change their mind, even if we sent our dossier now it may not get submitted until next year. That knowledge made us even more angry at the agency for delaying us, as you can imagine. We hear that that new policy is unlikely to stick, but still. We're not likely to be optimistic about delays in this process!
Third, we found out what some families were experiencing recently when they have gone to Ukraine. Before I explain what's going on, you need to remember how the process works. After the dossier is sent, translated, submitted to the SDA in Ukraine (State Dept. of Adoptions), and accepted, the SDA sends an invitation to visit for a one hour appointment on a certain day. That day is usually a month or two out from when you get the letter. You travel, meet for that appointment and they show you files of available children. You choose one, they give you the referral, and you go to that orphanage to visit the child. If that child doesn't work out for you, you go back to the SDA, get another appointment for anywhere from a day to a few days later, look at files again and get another referral. You keep doing that until you find your child. Most adopt their first or second referral.
So... What we found out is that many many many families are going over there, after having spent all the money on translation of their dossier, travel, etc., go in for their SDA appointment, and are given only a few files, mostly of VERY sick kids. For example a few families told me that they were asking for a girl under 6, relatively healthy, and they'd be shown 5 files. Two would be boys, both very sick, two would be girls and older than what they wanted, and one would be a girl in their age range but somewhat sick. They'd take the best of the 5 (which seems like a mind game to me to get more sick kids adopted out) and go see her. Sometimes they'd get lucky and the file was wrong and the child was pretty healthy.
Then there are many other families who would go, ask to see a child under 5 or 6 that was relatively healthy (correctable or manageable issues) and they would say they didn't have any. They'd have to take older or sicker or siblings.
When I say very sick, by the way, I mean cerebral palsy, HIV, hepatitis, quadriplegic, or at least Downs, mental retardation, or severe FAS.
Currently we'd be happy with any child under 6, and maybe even siblings, with correctable or manageable issues. Heart murmur, malnourished, developmental delays, speech problems, crossed eyes, mild FAS, etc.
We heard that there are more families coming home without children because of the lack of options the SDA is giving them. They run out of time and money and go home.
Those things all considered, we quickly got uncomfortable with Ukraine, at least the way it's going now. The SDA has a new director and there are so many things changing, up in the air, etc. Most people on the message boards are saying that people who go over anytime in the new future would have a hard time getting a relatively healthy individual child under 8 and only slightly more likely if they take siblings.
We're really not willing to go through all of this, go over, and risk coming home with nothing after six weeks away from home and all of our money spent. So at the very least, we're backing off the process with Ukraine for now. Even if we didn't want to back off, looks like there's no reason to rush. Delays are the only thing certain right now with that program.
Back to the home study agency... I wrote a letter, after learning of all of this info and being even more angry at the mess we've been pushed into by the delay. After summarizing the difficulties and delays with the home study process, I wrote:
"This is not a delay of a few weeks or even a month or two. This is a delay of five months or more to write it, plus another two month delay because of the misspelled name. This is not a delay caused by unavoidable circumstances. It is a delay caused by carelessness and a lack of standards, accountability, and supervision of your employees. With all of these facts in mind, we feel that we deserve a refund of the $1600 we paid.
"My hope is for both you along with [Agency's Name], and us, to end our relationship on a good note, both feeling that we were treated fairly and received what's best for us all under these circumstances. I would like to be able to tell the hundreds of PA families planning to adopt, with whom we have regular contact through message boards, that the only issues we had with your company were settled justly and in a timely way."
I sent this letter on Monday by certified mail. On Tuesday they received it. Tuesday afternoon I got a call from a man named Pete. He let me know that the president had received my letter, and he asked her if he could call me himself since he was one of the people involved in the fact finding investigation. He said that he whole-heartedly apologized, he couldn't believe that this happened, they thoroughly agree with our assessment of what occurred, were providing more training for their employees, and they would be happy to refund our money.
WOOHOO! So Tuesday was a better day than Monday.
So, in all fairness since they did resolve this eventually, we will refrain from badmouthing them all over the internet, of which I really am capable! ha ha
Whew... OK now here's the next news. (See, I'm making up for the lack of updates!)
There were posts on the message board during all this from a few people saying that they recently finished their adoption and things worked out eventually but if they had it to do over they'd adopt from a different country. One lady posted a message saying that she had switched mid process from Hungary to Serbia because of similar issues that people are having with Ukraine, and it's not hard at all to switch the documents. I confirmed this, somewhat, and wrote her an email asking if she had any country recommendations. She asked what we were looking for, I told her, and she said she was quite familiar with the adoption program from Estonia.
So now we're researching that possibility and are so far very impressed with it. It has it's pluses and minuses, but mostly it has the advantages we want and disadvantages we can probably handle better than Ukraine's disadvantages.
I have to get ready for the meeting (religious, for those of you who don't know) so I gotta run, but next post - hopefully tonight - I'll write about Estonia and it's possibilities.
Till later!
Love,
Molly
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